Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Hey all, looking to buy my first and main carry pistol.

Current guns in the running:
Sig p226 9mm - I love the huge mag's and reliability.
HK USP 9mm - It's a usp...

Both are about the same price ~800 and seem about the same except the sig has a much larger capacity.

I am looking for something that will be my "main" pistol. Something I can carry daily and have on me basically at all times. Both of the guns on my list are available in the "tactical" version and I believe a silencer would could be handy. Any thoughts on this and everything else are very much welcome.

And because a thread sucks without pretty pics I present my current top 2 choices.

Sig P226 Navy
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/50871.jpg

USP HK Tactical
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/15372.jpg

I have nothing against revolvers and will welcome any suggestions as far as they are concerned I just have very little knowledge about them and so have steered towards the semi-action weapons.

Thanks in advance.

:smokin:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Google Sig spring problems and you'll rule out the P226, but I do think
it's a fine piece, but in no way stacks up to the H&K, which will cost
you more. I was a huge 1911 fan for a long time and still am, but
recently went to HK for ease of maintenance in case TSHTF.

If I couldn't carry an HK, I'd carry a SiG.

( It's the trigger bar spring: http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/sig-sauer_p226.htm )

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I am a big dude (6'10) and have big hands. My buddy has a sig equinox and it fits perfectly in my hands (one of the reasons I am looking at p226)

I like the glock but I would just rather have a "nicer" gun.

Thanks for the reply :D

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Thanks, That helps a ton. My feeling has been to go with the HK as it is "known" as a higher quality and more reliable gun. As this will be my "main" weapon I want to get the best possible. Eventually I would like to have at least one of all the "standard" pistols, glock, 1911, s&w, ect.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

800?
you could have 2 Glocks for that price.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I almost bought a Sig 226 many years ago. Finally went with the Glock 19 due to being more size efficient. Also carries 15 rounds. Glock 26 is even more size efficient and carries 10 rounds. FWIW I can shoot my G 26 more accurately than the G 19. My dad owns a Sig 226 that I shoot on rare occasion. Fine pistol just not terribly size efficient.

When TSHTF concealability just might be an option that many don't really consider.

I own many Glocks in many calibers 45 ACP, 10mm, 40 S&W. They are not perfect but they are pretty solid combat autos.

Unless your planning on shooting Sasquatches on a regular basis 9mm is fine and dandy for most 2 legged pests. You just need to be careful what ammo you choose for Personal Defense. Unless you have deep pockets and cost is little to no issue I'd rather see people get a 9mm and practice more than get another caliber and find they don't shoot often enough to stay proficient.

The caliber war is way over done IMHO. Just don't go below 9mm in a main carry pistol or less than 38 Special in a revolver. I also have an assortment of pocket pistols in weaker calibers but that's a different story.

Depending on where you live Glock also sponsor GSSF shoots http://www.gssfonline.com/ . My local range burned their bridges with Glock on hosting these events. Actually Glock didn't offer as many perks to the host range as they did in the past. Regardless still a great opportunity to hone your skills.

If it's me against 5 bad guy with handguns . . . Glock any day of the week! :applause_

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

9mm is weak. HATED when they switched from .45 to 9mm when I was in The Corps. For stopping power, think in terms of .45, .357 magnum and 10mm�which balistically falls somewhere between .357 and .41 magnum. The Glock 29 (10mm) might be what you're looking for. I've got a Glock 20 but it's a bit big for carry. As for ammo, 10mm ammo is extremely versatile. DoubleTap makes some of the best. Up in the 200-230gr (wfngc) region, you've got a decent chance at stopping bear. (Try taking on a bear with a 9mm!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

All three (Glock, Sig, and H&K USP) are excellent combat pistols.

All three are stone reliable.

USP is the most accurate, and I have fired all three (Glock 22 and 19, Sig P228, AND H&K USP .40) at the range. But the Sig and the Glock are accurate as well.

USP is my choice of the 3, only because it is a little easier to shoot accurately.

9mm is a fine round, if you do your part.

See this post.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...4&postcount=10

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Insert standard first carry pistol opinion here_______

Get what you will carry everyday. A weapon is cumbersome, can be heavy,and extra precautions must be taken when carrying(clothing style).
If you find it at home or in your glovebox more than its on you somewhere, then it ain't a good carry gun.

I like the autoloaders and own a couple but for me the small smith or taurus 38's and 357's are the right choice for me to carry everyday.

Lightweight, front pocket friendly and takes a considerable less time to become proficient with IMO.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Handle a CZ-75B and see what you think before you buy something. They are my favorite handgun, and 17 9mm hollowpoints can't be argued with.

Don't listen to the "stopping power" nonsense arguments... we've been through this before.

http://www.gunsnthings.com/Photos/CZ_folder/CZ75B.jpg

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

A good quality 9mm HP has been proven to have the stopping power you will need in a handgun like buff said.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Another of the top combat pistols. With great prices, less than a glock.

I had a CX75 compact stainless in 9mm that was exceptionally accurate. I hit 9 out of 10 hanging bowling pins at 50 yards with it at one shoot.

I still regret selling it.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Also . . .

You can look around on www.glocktalk.com and lurk there. Lots of non-glock users there.

Fair amount of Ron Paul haters over there and neo-con boot licker types but other than that a good informative site.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I've got a CZ P-01. It is the best CZ:

1. Excellent ergonomics (great rubber grip)
2. NATO certification (torture-tested)
3. Decocker instead of safety (who wants a safety on a carry gun?)
4. Right balance of size/capacity (same size as a G-19, but a few ounces heavier)
5. No polymer structural parts - alluminum frame

That said, the G-19 is the simplest to operate. Just the "go button".

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Buy three cheap compact 9mm for the same price you will pay for one of those. Heard that the russians make an OK one.

In the comeing SHTF in a POLICE STATE situation coming at us, you may need to use and ditch a pistol, and walk away from a messy time. That's what I heard worked in Argentina. Make sure it is a common round used by the police and military, so that you can always get black market ammo. Make sure that it is small enough to carry always, to hell with mag capacity~~~carry extra mags!

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Main carry pistol?
What does that mean?
Can you have two pistols on your CCW?
If only one pistol is allowed in your state, get one that is small enough to carry in warm weather.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Pistol rounds must penetrate deep enough to hit something vital in the CNS, brain, spine, heart...or otherwise incapacitate by breaking bones or joints like shoulders, knees, elbows, pelvis...

Most important is not pistol type, caliber, or bullet...but shot placement.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Yup!

I wore out a usp in 5K rounds, look carefully at the forward frame rails which are plastic covered aluminum!

For daily carry look closely at the various calibered KAHRs, I daily carry a 1911 10mm but 3lbs of steel lugs down the belt!

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Ever think about how you will carry in the hot summer weather?

I've carrier a pistol for 20 years.....summer is a bummer....in the winter you can carry anything you want due to large bulky jackets.

I carry a Keltec 380 ACP - just 7 ounces and enought to get the job done. They now have a 9mm....about the same size, but heavy.

I prefer a front pant pocket holster sized pistol. When I walk out into a parking lot or in an area where i may need it right away ....I often just have my hand in pocket on the pistol.

Give this some thought...it is easy to have a pistol with you 100% of the time if it fits in your pants pocket.

A lot of guys here will say you need more gun than 380....but they are pretty potent. It is basically a 9mm short. Trust me, a 45ACP is better...but they are 5X the weight and 2X the size.

My vote is for a 100% of the time on your person pistol.

Cost = under $300.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Ruprick,

great advice, and great avatar :D

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

SLV, how much did you pay for that P01? Did you have to order it?

I thought I wanted the SP01 but I think I'd rather have more concealability with the shorter barrel P01. Those rubber grips sure are fantastic, they feel so great especially with the nice weight of the CZ.

thanks in advance.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

They redesigned the spring in 1998 so it won't break. I don't think that the spring wearing away the frame

is that big of a deal. How much use is required for the spring to wear through the receiver, and come into contact

with the mag-catch support plate? Is this the cause of any malfunctions? If the support plate gets worn a little, they

can be easily replaced for $4. One could even use a little JB weld to make the enlarged hole smaller.

http://i33.tinypic.com/214wjme.jpg

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Why do you prefer a 380 to a 38 snubby?
Be well.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Edie, What Ruprick said on the .380! I own 2 and also have a small frame .38 spl., the .38 is fatter with 5 rds, the PPK has 6 plus 1 if you load one in the chamber and then top off the mag. The Sig P232 .380 will do 7+1 with just a bit more in size. They are small, but I'd rather have small than the Glock or 1911 I should have not left home because it was too heavy to carry or conceal with summer clothes on.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Ton of good info that I will be looking into.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

In my 20 years experience, the Keltec is the most awesome bang for the size/weight.

I have several .38Spl, 5 shot, 2 in bbl, hammerless, alloy frame revolvers.....this is what I carry in my coat pocket in the winter time. We also have one around the house as handy "house guns". Simple and effective....wife can use it and she is not a gun gal.

Again, back to the story of in the pocket.....in the winter, when out and about...100% of the time it is in my coat pocket....and the 380 is in my pant pocket....I believe you should carry 2 guns. In the summer my "back-up" is a NAA 5 shot mini revolver.

Revolvers are fantastic, but even in super light alloy....11 to 12 ounces...plus the ammo is heavier than the 380. Load one up and you are knocking on 1 pound. The bigger issue is the size ......even a compact revolver of 5 shots is not as flat as a super compact Keltec.....the Keltec is under 0.75 in thick.....flatness is a key feature to a carry gun....add a pocket holster and it adds even more thickness.

I use a very thin in the pocket paddle holsterby DeSantis. Has a sticky rubber outside to keep gun in position and break up the pistol outline.

To get a feel for what I'm talking about on weight.....go put 3.5 or 4 rolls of pennies in your pocket......due to probably less than 20% copper in circulation....80% zinc.....you will need 4 rolls. If you have 100% copper...only use 3 rolls. This will be 1 pound.....a very light weight alloy revolver. Tape then together to be one concentrated weight. Put it in your pocket and go and run around the yard....you will quickly discover weight is a big issue.

Final comments....if you carry in a belt holster....hell, you can carry a full sized Govt 1911 45ACP......but what I find is that most folks will not carry this 100% of the time....esp in the summer.

When people ask me "What gun to buy?"....my first choice is 38 snubby....#2 is the Keltec.....if they plan on carry every day....i just switch the order around. Should get both....keep one around the house for the wife.

Got kids....get a hotel room safe......you can buy one for $70 at Hardor Freight.....electronic key-pad.....pick an easy number....you can open in the dark.....bolt to wall or floor....keep gun locked in there ....but you can get to it fast.

Got no safe? Do this.....We sleep with a 1911......just seat the magazine....but do not chamber....if needed, it is easy to rack the slide....good to go......99.9999999% of the time...no rack....in the morning just remove the magazine....have only one mag and no other ammo to be found.....you can leave the gun out for the kids to play with (kidding...but get my point)....take the magazine or hide it where you are sure they will not find.....like in a sport coat lapel pocket in the closet...or take it with you....This is what my dad did when i was a kid....that gun was in the night stand...and trust me...we were curious.....no ammo = safe.....no mistakes - when you do not chanmber as a rigid policy you know it is never loaded....also make the first round a JHP...followed by a FMJ....when you look at the mag....better see JHP...good visual double check....by the way, in my carry 380...that is my system.....chambered JHP, next in the mag a FMJ....just to increase probability of good feeding...for sure I should get 2 good shots....rest are JHP. Also, FMJ gives better penetration at cost of expansion.

Also, you do not want to come home and get shot with your own gun you left in the house....by a young scared robber that found your loaded house gun....and you walked in on...

I could go on for days......these are my experiences....over a lot of years of both legal and illegal carry in Detroit/Flint.

Bottm line get a gun and carry 100% of the time.

Also, get 2 wallets....one full of junk and about $100.....get in a situation...give up the dummy wallet....and slowly back away...distance even 10 feet may save your life.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I agree. Kel-Tec is well made, reliable, and smalllll. I favor the P9, (have not seen a PF-9 yet) which carries 10 rounds, is inexpensive, small enough, and if you want to carry extra mags, the Smith and Wesson 5900 series of 15 round mags fit.

The P3-AT is a tiny gun, and if I had to conceal carry every day, would be my choice. The .380 is sufficient if you do your part. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.


Another excellent choice. I prefer the 22 mag version, with oversize rubber grips. Non-imprinting holsters are available, so that the gun looks like a wallet in your pocket.

Excellent advice and pointers.

I can see where living in Detroit/Flint would hone these skills.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

if anyone cares border patrol carries HK's

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Here in the SW, I see many still carrying Beretta 9mms...

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

That is a good point.....when you are that big.....you have big paws....a bigger gun would be relatively the same size......

My next choice up from the KelTec would be a 9mm Khar.....they also make it in a 40S&W and 45ACP.

Khars are very nice pistols.

In the end...it does not matter the make/model...juet get a gun that fits you and your carry situation....Charter Arms makes fine low cost revolvers.....you do not need to spend $600 on a pistol....$250 will get the job done. Avoid junk like those Jennings and other crap.....

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Very impressive. Now along with mom's jello pudding, let's see the results vs. vehicles and bear hide.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I dont quite understand the comment that you want a 'nicer' pistol than a Glock.

If you want something you can sit on your nightstand and admire then I would go with something like a 1911 colt, I have several and they are beautiful pistols, they perform well and overall I have no complaints about them.

However, if this is a carry weapon and it is something you want for self-defense there is nothing I would rather on my hip than a Glock. When you pull the trigger on a Glock it is going to go bang and it is going to hit your target and it is going to do so in a more reliable and consistent manner than any other pistol on the market today.

Lay any number pistols on a table, you name it, and I have 5 seconds to grab one to take in to battle, im grabbing the Glock without second thought.

That said, I also wouldnt waste my money on a 9mm. Get a 10mm or a .45 and nothing less.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Depending on the state... the mark up is friggen murder. I remeber paying 700+ for mines in jersey.


T

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Still need to penetrate deep enough to hit something vital...which was the point of the graphic.

YOU need to decide under what circumstances a pistol might be deployed and what will be required...

Bear? Carry a long gun.

CCW? Drawing quickly from concealment and firing for effect.

Shooting into or out of an automobile? Hope you have a good lawyer.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

If someone's trying to run me down with their vehicle while I'm out jogging, I'd rather have a 10mm than a can of pepper spray.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I have 3 10MM colt 1911's, they say they overpenetrate. I see it as a 10mm kills everything and those standing behind the problem.:smokin:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Agreed! I love mine. They fit the hand like a glove. The actions is tight and they are so well ballanced.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/IMG_0687.jpg

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I have the HK USP .45 Tactical and while an excellent and accurate sidearm, I would not want to have it as my everyday carry piece. It is just way too large. That being said and even though you aren't considering Glocks, my everyday carry is a G36.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Hey everyone just got back from the gun shop. I ended up going with the Sig P226 Tactical with an earth tone color. Comes with 2 mags and I got it for $900. Very happy with my choice.

Thanks everyone for the advice and thoughts.

Will post a shooting report after I try her out. :D

http://www.sig-sauer-arms.com/images/P220COMTB.jpg

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I second the Glock although the SIG is better of the 2 presented IMO.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Ooops.......didn't see your post - CONGRATS ! :wink:

You won't be disappointed, SIG makes accurate weapons.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Anyone have an opine on a Glock 22 - 0.40 pistol?

Ammo seems to be cheaper than either the 9mm or the 0.45

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I always see used (police) G22's at gun shows for bargain prices.
Thinking about picking up one or two for back-ups....

Cops don't practice nearly as much as you would think......:yes:
Just a little holster wear, and that's it....

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

The one most issued by L.E. agencies...my stepson carries one every day.

Ammoman has had some of the best on-going deals on Speer Gold Dot .40 S&W that I have seen: https://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

They have limited quantities of the law enforcement grade Speer. I have fired hundreds of rounds of 9, 40, 357 sig and they are accurate, expand in most all media, and have worked flawlessly out of my Glocks.

I like the Speer GD 155HP for the G27, the 165HP and 180HP for my G22 and G35. :ok:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Both guns are great but the most important thing is will you always want to carry it? If you don't put it in your pocket or holster like a wallet then it's worthless as a carry gun. I've got many 6" barreled guns that are great but they're just too big and uncomfortable for me. I like a keltec .380. I always put it in my front pocket, I forget it's there, it remains well hidden in all pants, and if I get robbed I just say, hang on buddy, you can have my money....boom! It's natural to reach into your front pocket when you're robbed. You can get a nice thin leather holster for it. The Keltec is very reliable...mine feeds all ammo and never jams. The Ruger keltec clone has been getting some bad feedback...I'd wait if that's what you want.

A .380 is the minumum defense weapon but it will kill nicely at 5-10 yards with a good round like a core bon or silver tip. You can shoot +p's as long as it's only a few...not a steady diet....just empty it when you start shooting. Leave the last round for a head shot if he's still holding his gun. Load a solid point for the last round. If you're up north in the winter, load it solid point, hollow, solid, hollow, etc...solid penetrates clothes better.

One of my customers was robbed at an ATM...he had a 22 lr NAA. He cocked it and shot it through his jeans. Neadless to say the knife welding man was shocked....he missed. Ruined the robbers day. He said the driver left him running down the street. Moral to the story...if you have a gun it's better then a knife. Leave it home and your screwed no matter how big and deadly it is.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

That's why I carry this G27:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I have just about every Glock 40 ever made:

G27 sub-compact 1st gen
G23 2nd gen
G22 2nd gen
G24 2nd gen
G24C 2nd gen
G35 Most accurate 40 Glock in the fleet

Great caliber but don't discount the 9mm Glocks as being worthy.

9mm ammo might be easier to find for trade after the :fan:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

.38 snub, always there when you are. got a never fired taurus alloy frame at pawn for 225. already had neoprene grip, plus p rated. works for me.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Congrats!
I was reading through the thread before I posted.
What I was going to say is.......
You won't be underserved if you by a good quality gun from the start. Whether it be Glock, Sig, H&K, Beretta, Springfield.
The most important thing is to learn to shoot and maintain it. Fear the man who has one gun. I'm not really going to give a shit what brand gun or caliber I'm being shot at with. I'll be more concerned if they are competent marksmen.

Now you need to get a good quality holster. In Vermont we can carry concealed without asking a bureaucrat for permission. Milt Sparks makes an awesome IWB holster.

Luckily due to climate it's easy to conceal a full sized pistol like a Beretta 92, Sig 226, or Glock 21.
When it's hot (which isn't for very long) it's the S&W 642 (.38spl).

Now pile on the ammunition!

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I just bought a Sig P250 (and a Kel-Tec PLR-16 just for fun) last weekend, but for carry I like my snub .38 revolver.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Why a 9mm? I mean when you can get a 40 S&W which is much more potent.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I'm trying to decide on these 3...


Walther PPK 380

Glock 27 compact

Bersa Thunder 380 <----have owned one and it didn't feed well, but they are 250$ so I guess you get what you pay for.


My Springfield 1911 has gone up $200 in value in 1 yr.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I'd rather have someone buy a 9mm and actually be able to afford to shoot the weapon more and actually be able to hit something with it than buy a 40 or other caliber and not practice enough to make the shot. Also 9mm typically has an extra round or 2 in the magazine of the same size weapon. Also 9mm is a NATO round.

Trust me I'm a way better shot than many cops and far to often I see J6P and his wife out at the range struggling with their weapons. Sorry hits with a 9mm count more than more impressive wound channels, stretch cavities etc.

Yes 9mm can be an iffy caliber if you choose the wrong ammo. Many of the same people who call 9mm weak swear by their .38 snubies not realizing it's often weaker than 9mm in many loadings.

If you want ... I can make a list of my favorite 9mm loadings that are not wimpy and can get the job done.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Thanks for the reminder, forgot about that.

I've take it out to the range 3 times now. Shoots like a dream. Incredibly smooth action and this is shooting steel wolf through it.

I wish I had some pics to show just how accurate this thing is. All I have to go on is that I am a noobie at shooting but even I could hit the 1 inch bullseye at 15 yards.

Basically I couldn't be happier. Sig p226 is a great gun. I highly recommend it.

:565:

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Talking about .380's, does anyone have any experience with the Ruger LCR?

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

I've fired the PPK 380. It is harsh on the hand but I'm a wimp in that dept. The PPK fits me better in .32 caliber.
The Bersa is a get what you pay for event, they win for fitting in a small waist line, though.
If size isn't the main issue then the Browning BDA-380 cannot be beat for reliability, looks and showcasing the 380 round. It is the epitome of 380 balance.

I am very interested in hearing more about this Ruger LCR, though. It definitely takes the cake on size so I bet it eats your hand alive. I happen to be partial to Ruger.
Did I mention I hate plastic on a gun? The LCR might get me to compromise but no glock ever could so I don't have too much faith.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Had a new Walther PPKs in .380 and it was a jam-amatic. Very accurate when it cycled. Was sent back to the Interarms etc. Kept jamming. I was doing good to be able to fire 4 rounds then another jam. Yes it was probably a isolated case of jamming but really ... it was sent back. Very accurate when it did fire.

Traded it in for a Glock 27 in 40.

I went through this drill with a Grendel P12 in .380 .... a complete POS. Worst gun I ever fired in my life. Traded that for credit on a Sig226.

Ok .... never - never - never - relay on a gun that you personally have for self protection unless you personally have checked it out at he range for reliable function with your spendy carry ammo as well. This also goes for wheel guns.

Re: Yet another what pistol thread.
 

Thanks for the info. Didn't Kel-Tec have problems with their first runs of the P3AT as well? Later production seemed by and large trouble-free.